Yesterday I took part in the Jehovah witness day of observance of the last supper. I was told what to look forward to and even explained about the service. I know that people were going to pass both bread and wine and not take part of it unless they say they are called by God to be apart of the 144,000. I myself had taken apart of this service through other denominations and knew of no other way to do until now. But when I got there and the service started I was again reminded by one of the elders speaking that they say we aren’t to take part in the eating or drinking because as second fruit people(not the first fruits, the 144,000) we don’t have a Covenant with Christ and that we only benefit from it(something that I don’t see or agree with still). So by the time the bread and wine was pass by everyone I already had those questions dancing around my head. And as I looked as people one after the other pass the bread away from themselves I couldn’t help but hear in my conscience the words from Christ telling his followers “EAT” this is my body, “DRINK” this is my blood and New Covenant. But yet one after another we pass the plate without eating and pass the glass without drinking. I then wondered what would happen if I did eat and drink from the glass anyway but didn’t. I prayed ever single time my hands touched either the glass or plate for forgiveness if this by any means offended him by me passing it away from myself. In the end I felt as if I was telling God and Christ that I didn’t except this sacrifice and was passing it up by passing it away from me and not taking it up to eat and to drink. And I still feel this way. I know I don’t need the Hall or anyone else to do this for myself in the privacy of my home but somehow I think this experience will weigh very heavily on me for a while and might be a cornerstone in my walk. I just feel like at times that their teaching are strength to my walk with God 60% of the time but for the other 40% of the time I feel like I have to destroy everything I have ever believed to be one of them and I’m not sure if the reasoning on that part is proving that its false or that I have been wrong for so long. I will admit that the relationships I have with many of them especially my friends that come over and study with me every Sunday have been very pleasing and I have felt stronger in my walk daily than I have ever felt before . But I still have a lot of things bothers me and more studying to do. I knew this wasn’t going to be a quick thing so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised about my questions and feelings at this point.
1. They refuses to see God ultimately for what he is. Almighty. He is in control ultimately. What is control?Control in it’s simplest form is the ability to change, stop, created or destroy without any one or anything having the ability to stop you if you choose to do it. This is God. He has allowed all that we see to exist and be whatever it is that it is for his own purpose and reason. This includes Satan and all that we declare as wrong or evil because God could stop all this if he wanted to but he doesn’t. Satan is called the “god”of this world not because he has the authority of God on earth nor even the power of God and most importantly not because he took it from him. He is the god of the system of things because he influences the hearts and minds of those on this planet to do and believe things that causing them to stand against the permissive will of Jehovah. If Satan was truly a God don’t you think he would destroy every one of us? He would but he can’t , why? Look at Job as the perfect example of what truly exist. Everything Satan wanted to do he had to get the power to do so or authority to do it from God. No matter what you think and or how you feel as God the creator of everything seen and unseen he is the author and definer of what is good and evil . In fact the only way we know what is good or evil comes down to the clear truth that anything can be labeled as good or bad. The determining fact is if God is in it or approves it or not. If not its evil no matter what it is. Example sex between a man and women not married equals sin. Same sex between same two people the exact same way but now they are married equals…Just. You see, the act isn’t perfectly defined as a sin by itself. It’s the act without God in it that makes it a sin in most cases. So JW refused to look at the matter in this light even though it’s the truth because it forces them to see that along with our Loving God comes a Punishing One as well that will punish and hurt those who he see’s right to do so. This is why they don’t really believe that there could be a Hell. They think that a loving God would not torture people. Well just ask all 10 children of Job about that their view on the subject . Most of us would die if only One of children died. What if 10 of them died because of a bet between Satan and God? Does this fit you standards as a Loving God? NO it doesn’t. But again mine and your thoughts about just and right and loving are not defined by us but by God himself. Therefore his actions no matter what they are=just and righteous. Its his purpose and his right to do whatever he deems that needs to be done and NOBODY can say or do anything about. Just ask Job what happen when he tried to question God to why God gave his life over to Satan Job chapter 38.( this shows also what Satan would do to us all if God lets him to so just think about that before we go putting everything in his Control of this world). God put him in his place quickly and fearfully. God explained to him that no one can question whatever he decides to do even if its his will to do it to someone, in our eyes, that didn’t deserve it. This is what being Almighty really means without the fluff. God alone ultimately is in control of all things( *remember what control really is *) and make the rules. Its just truth people. You might not like how its being said but it’s the truth. Can you say you could question God like Job did? If so I hope he has mercy on you. He already had to straighten out one human for do so. So bottom line Just because you have your own version of God doesn’t give you the right to determine something as nonexistent because it goes against your version if it’s written. I find it very hard to believe that Jesus would give parables about a place that didn’t exist nor would revelation say and contain the word “Tormented day and night forever”( Rev. 20:10)if the person or thing is just merely dead and feeling nothing. Nor the use terms like “Tartarus” comparing it the destroyed world of the half breads and angels when angels pregnanted women before the flood. The same word, which was well known in those days as a Greek mythology place of holdings for Half breads(man and gods, man and angels mixed)was used so if the writer truly didn’t believe that a person would have some kind of existence after death then why use it in comparison?
2. My stance that scripture trumps assumptions and our beliefs. I believe the words of Christ over anything and anyone. John 6-44 and john 6-65 both give undeniable proof that man again has no real say so in thing. Christ states to his people referring to others who could not understand who he was nor accept what he was saying as this.
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day.”
“So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
The word in bold means a few people, some, only people born then? No! Means No Man or person can see that Christ as their lord and Savior but those who the father first must put it on their hearts to receive
It in the first place. That’s means boys and girls that again we find scripture that shows you again that it is God who really calls you and unless he does you have no will or ability to seek out the true salvation. JW’s hate this because it gives them the truth that has been stated plenty of times in the bible that God already know who will be saved and who will not and it is those who he picks that will ultimately end up right where he sees fit even if that place is Hell or grave as the JW’s call it. There statements about this verse and others is to appeal to logic instead of looking at the word only. Saying things like” why would a loving God do this”? Logic can’t be relied upon to dismiss the word of God. It can be used with other scriptures to counter translations but this is not a translation issue. This is a fact and the only problem comes up when you can’t accept that you aren’t in control of anything in the end of the day. We can’t even control what happens in our own bodies much less spiritual powers and authority.
3. 144,000 counting,when it started, and who they are.
*And reign as “Kings and priest” is a male position not a woman position. If the first group of converts in acts are all apart of this then the bible would ‘ve declaring woman to reign as kings. But the fact that virginity was required and it only mentioned those not defiled by a woman and not men further proves these people as all men. And we all know there were women there in acts. Which would make this verse wrong. A women can no more of a king than a man can be a mother. So the fact that the verse shows without a doubt that the these were males and virgins excludes the 144,000 being merely the first group of converts to the church. And it give more proof that the first fruits are merely talking about first group of Jewish males that are sowed back into tree that convert to Christ as their savior at the time before the tribulation from all the tribes
*As far as “Priests” go they are only Male as God has declared it from ancient times with levi’s sons.
And finally God ordains the order of leadership in heaven and earth as Jehovah, then Christ, then man, and then women. This is why there are no woman angels or feminine named angels in the bible. Nothing points to a rule of a woman ordained by God in heaven or on earth. And finally Paul’s decree given to him by the Holy spirit is that women can hold no rule over man or usurp authority over them. Not even Christ mother vessel Mary is ever mentioned as given any point of leadership or position in heaven. In fact she wasn’t even seen there or mentioned there. And of all the women on earth that should have been the one woman that was given a kind of a rulership role in heaven her name wasn’t even mentioneId nor any reference to her at all. In fact Christ called her” Woman” before he died denouncing her as his parent any longer and returning her back to her role as a mere human woman.
4. Michael is not Jesus.
There is no biblical scripture in the whole bible that says this. And to imply it as part of a doctrine belief without this information being said is flat out wrong. In fact the put all their beliefs on this because Christ is mentioned to use the voice of the archangel when he returns. But what they don’t say is that he also had the trumpet of God. So he used element and associated things of two types of beings. So this proves he is Michael with the voice but not God with the trumpet. This would hold a little weight if it weren’t for the scripture below.
“But the prince of the royal realm of Persia
was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Mi′cha·el, one of the foremost princes,came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia”
Foremost is used by the JW and the word that was originally there is the word was chief prince. .chief prince translates to arch angel. So the problem is that there are many arch angels. Not just one. So one can’t ID Christ as michael simply because he used a trait associated with arch ANGELS. And then the real problems happen in Revelation when it describes the war that broke out in heaven upon what the JW says Christ first act when he returned to heaven. They say Christ took on Satan with his angles (Rev. ch 12). Notice though that Michael and Christ was mentioned throughout this whole chapter separately in the same vision john was witnessing. Don’t you think that by now that john know what Christ looks like. Why and how would he confuse them if they were the same person? And why would he have to keep changing the person’s name back and forth during the same story? Because they aren’t the same person
Have you ever thought about it? Have you ever wanted to know about it? HELL, a concept shared in Christianity only by the main stream Christian. A concept that only showed up in writings as a metaphor and or translated into our language because of concepts from the catholic and pagans once again combining themselves. Words like Tartarus used in peter( only found in greek mythology) and Hell come from a thought or concept created by the pagans and Greek gods worships of the Catholic Church to add more meaning to death. The same catholic church that is the only religious group that makes you study about false gods(greek and roman gods)as part of your teaching to become one of them. But ironically the Jews in the Old Testament were never told by God that there was ever a place called Hell. In fact this is what takes place to all who die according to Ecclesiastes.
“Ecclesiastes 12:7 “Then shall the dust return to
the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return
unto God who gave it.”
Hell isn’t even found in the Old Testament. What most try to use is the words Sheol but even here in the same book it only refers to Sheol as a state of death in which no activity exist. And is not even related to the same thing. One is “suppose” to be a firing place of pain and suffering and the other is just a “holding place” as is commonly said today. They mean two different things so with that in mind Hell isn’t mentioned until the Greek and Roman influences in the New Testament.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 states: “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.”
So again its not a real place but used to describe the grave or death. So you remain sleep until God calls you. You would have thought that in the Old Testament where most of the authorized killing was taking place by God or his people that someone might have used the term “Hell” period or at least describe it as a real place and not metaphorically.
I was really shocked that not even Jews today believe in a hell so again this concept wasn’t created by Jehovah witness but merely adapted by them as fact when you look into all the scriptures. In the New Testament we have accounts of the word Hell and every single time it being used in a parable or in substitution of death. There is a lot more to this and other examples but if you look at them yourself you begin to see the connection(not yet ready to say for sure but the evidence is there). It’s always used symbolically to describe death or the grave in which you lay until God calls you up. And once you see your spirit being what it is …a life spark or energy granted by God and the soul as as anything that has breath you start to get the views of Jews(Gods original chosen people) and Jehovah wittinesses.
Lets catch up shall we. Well as it seems the theme for me I have experience ups and downs on this walk in learning about Jehovah witnesses. I have so many things I have learned and been encouraged about from them. Yet some nights I find myself fighting against their statements and considerations. I fight about them saying that Michael was Christ. I fight about me changing scriptures seemly because translation in a lot of cases have been wrong but yet I feel like they aren’t all wrong. Maybe 7 out 10 times I have been clearly shown and the other 3 times it seems like its only implying things. Books like Titus and verses like John 1:1 give clear statements that Christ is called on as God not god. And through the evidence in scriptures and in Christ own words he isn’t truly the almighty God the Father but sits on his throne as such only until the conclusion of things. But yet I somehow their translations of verses in Titus and John change the very statements used in Titus and John 1:1 that traditional bible have to either remove the statement that he was called God and or makes his out to be ” a god”. Every place “god” is used its always used on something that wasn’t a god really but was merely falsely called one, AE false god and enemy of Jehovah. So to say John 1:1 says the word was a god means to say that “the word was a false god” in my eyes. There isn’t anywhere else in the bible that Christ is ever called “god” only “God” example Isaiah 9:6 and Thomas also called him God of Me and Lord of Me. Even his Old Testament name Immanuel TRUE translation is ..”for us he is God”. So with the missing definite article in this verse allowing for both use of the term “God”and the term “god” it only seems logically that God would be used over the term god to remain consistent with the bible view of Christ. I take that to mean that he is our God because he is the source of me and all things created. Jehovah told Christ to create all things and the bible says that it was “for” Christ that this order was given and that nothing else was ever created by Jehovah God directly but Christ. So that means Christ created angles, created earth, the universe, the sun, was the one that breathed life into Adam, was that created Adam and Eve, etc. I don’t know if you get that picture in your mind but this would make him God to us even if he himself was not the almighty God himself that created him, hence the name Immanuel, meaning “for us he is God”. So things like this still exist for me and my instructors say that the proof I need will be revealed the further we go so I will again keep a open mind because I have enjoyed all the time in the Kingdom Hall and bible time attention to my needs and questions that the Jehovah witnesses have provided up to this point. I have said this before and will say it again. I have never had a group of individuals like the Jehovah witnesses that push to be so ready and willing to make every effort possible no matter what happens to make sure they are their for me. Every church I have been too says this to one another but never fulfill it because they have other things they do that come first. Or they are so tied down with themselves that at best they can make maybe 1-2 visits to your home but try meet you at your house every week after church even during storms for 3 months straight and see what happens. Especially if you aren’t a member yet or have question that challenge their belief systems or structures of their church. I guarantee you won’t see them for three months straight at your house unless you are physically unable to make it to church and even then it won’t be every week as a nonmember or person that has questions that seems to be a threat on their belief systems. You would luckily if you get them at your house one time as a nonmember.
****In fact I think I am going to try that experiment. I am going to call some local churches in my city and see if I can have a bible study with the pastors there at my house as a nonmember and see how fast they hang up the phone Or claim they don’t do this. I will post my progress when I start this experiment. This should be good:)
What I have learned :
1. Christ is the son of God and doesn’t think of himself as equal to the father and calls the father his God.
2. Chris to the first born of all creation and through him all things were created. Nothing but the son was created by the father directly.
3.You have no soul like man and fables concepts have forced their way inside the belief of the church. Souls are anything that contains breathe and life.
4. Your spirit is only your life energy or very breathe not a person inside you. Spirit is used by the bible in place of breathe when used to describe the spark or energy life present in the body. That same spark energy or breathe returns back under the control of the Father upon expiration of that life and is therefore controlled by the father to given back or never to be returned to a resurrection of that person life in the end. AE: into your hands (your control) I commend my spirit. Christ nor the bible mentioned ever that christ returned back to heaven when this took place in fact he didn’t go back until after his resurrection. So this alone shows you that his spirit being commended into the Fathers hands only meant that the Father was asked to govern or control it as always and would He would be the one that decided to put that life into the resurrected body of Christ to once again being life to Christ at his choosing.
5.Hell seems to be a figurative place that just means death or grave
6. When you die you are dead. Nothing else is left over to go any place . You return to the dust.
7. There are Kings with Christ. And not all people become them otherwise there is no need for kings if there is no body to rule over. And the kings are mentioned to be first fruits.
8. Christ did tell the Pharisees that the kingdom was taken from them and given to a new nation. A spiritual Israel or firstfruits. And the bible describes firstfruits as the first group of converts . But again doesn’t give a cut off point or date. (But then Paul goes on to say that Christ would give again the attachment of their branch back into the tree for the first fruits for the original Jews)
OK I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO SHOW YOU ALL MY LIST OF ROAD BLOCKS THAT MUST BE MOVED BEFORE I MOVE FORWARD IN ANY FURTHER DIRECTION WITH THE JW’s. SOME OUT THERE MAY HAVE BELIEVED THAT THIS DIRECTION OF MINE WAS HEADING FOR JEHOVAH WITNESSES. IT ISN’T . I REMAIN NEUTRAL AND OPEN MINDED. THIS IS ONLY THE TIME FRAME OF WHICH THE FLOOR HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THEM SO THAT I MAY CONSIDER WHAT THINGS EXIST AS FACT AND WHICH EXIST BECAUSE OF HEAR SAY. BELOW IS THE COLD HARD ISSUES I BELIEVE POSS A REAL PROBLEM IN THEIR BELIEF SYSTEMS FOR ME AND WITHOUT ANSWERS I DON’T BELIEVE I COULD EVER BE APART OF THAT SYSTEM. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A COPY OF MY OWN PERSONAL NOTES TO MYSELF.
***In all issues the organization merely point out scriptures that they feel” implies” these thoughts but never says them.
1.No evidence that supports who in their organization is apart of the 144,000 scripturally or where the number is today among the millions of JW today and that have died. *no implying *
2.There is no evidence that supports that the New Testament disciples and first church that died thousands of years ago will somehow end up alive on earth right before the tribulation waiting to be sealed yet again(???) like the scripture say it. ***Those that were sealed were alive during that time not prior and sealed to remain on earth not to stay in heaven as the scripture clearly shows ***. *no implying *
3.No evidence scripturally that supports Christ being Michael especially since there are many chief(means arch) angels. In fact there are more scriptures that support that he is called God 10x’s more than it is of anything close to calling him Michael or gives evidence of a name change except in revelation. *no implying *
4.No evidence scripturally that support the sealing of the 144,000 NOT being of the Jewish tribes of Judea especially given the fact that the bible flat out says it word of word and even goes into detail on how they were seals in each tribe. If it was symbolic then there would be no need for this. *no implying *
5.No evidence to support scripturally that they are NOT all “men”never to have been defiled by a woman. *no implying *
6.No evidence to support scripturally that the sealing of the 144,000 took place prior to the time before the great tribulation. Bible says it took place right before the plagues. So these people were alive on earth at that time and then sealed right before the tribulation took place. *no implying *
7.No scripture to support that the covenant isn’t for everyone that is apart of Christ and only for a elite group of people above the rest especially nothing that says its for the 144,000. *no implying *
8.No scripture evidence to support that ONLY 144,000 people can take on the blood and bread of Christ’s supper. *no implying *
9.No scripture evidence to support that Christ and His Father /God won’t be with all the people on the new earth in New Jerusalem. *no implying *
10.And no scripture supports John 1:1 being translated into god and not God. It is the same word used throughout the New Testament that has stood for both god and God. If every other place in the bible calls Christ the title “God” why would this be the only place that uses the term god if the bible uses it to only describe false gods. *no implying * Even if one throws out John 1:1 you still have to deal with Isaiah 9:6 and Thomas and Paul themselves calling Christ God. So whatever reason he gets to have this title it’s still his to be had, and not “god”.
11.No scriptural evidence that give real time of “that which is perfect”. So can’t stand on any date . *no implying *
12. Big question or issue : Then the organization says there is no more Holy Spirit inspired dreams, spiritual gifts , spiritual warnings or communication and any more miracles going on anymore from God. When you yourself have had many proving it to be of Him. Can you teach others not to believe in something you have had come upon you that has proven to be of God. If so you would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is unforgivable.
While sitting talking to a friend something came up that I knew but I didn’t know how far it reached until today. The trinity concept that really is doctrine but not explained in churches to the membership for one reason or another is even misunderstood by those that refuse it. Above is a clear outline of the trinity doctrine( this is one the oldest shields of the trinity). Now don’t freak out if you don’t recognize it as a explanation taught to you, most don’t. The reason why is because down through the years the concept of the trinity has became a source of attacks so much that even the original followers have tried to step away from it in their attempt to explain it to others so much that its become forgotten even to their own believers. Most people will tell you the example of water, ice, and steam. What they don’t explain is that those example show that one thing stopped being the other while becoming the next. This concept doesn’t fit the trinity and is false. Rather you know it or not the doctrine of the trinity says that there are three different people, each with their own wills and make up unique to them only and not the others and yet the three stand as one God. Three different people standing as one God is the base. Basically the father is not the son or Holy Spirit, son is not the Father or Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit isn’t the son or Father but somehow they create and stand as a God. This is the truth people. You may not be told this by the church you go to but this is the trinity. Look it up in the doctrine information on the trinity yourself. Right away I’m sure most of you can see that this concept isn’t at all what most of you see God as and or is taught to you in the church but I assure you this is the doctrine. And then the most important part of all of it is the fact that the doctrine says that neither one of them is more powerful than the other or over the other. And when you add up all this along with the bible’s statements about God and the sure fact that the concept of the trinity was even known or created until roughly 200-300 years after the bible was already completed something stands out. And then the clear fact that Christ on earth clearly said he was not equal to his father, his father knew more, and his father was greater than him and then in heaven as the risen Christ with all power being given to him by his Father still says that his Father is still His God proves that there is no way shape or form they are equal at all and the Father is clearly the most powerful and ultimate commander and chief then we have a serious problem with the doctrine and see that this is not a concept that can stand based on man’s made up doctrine called trinity. Anyway I hope this helps some out there. I’m a firm believer that you have the choice in the direction of your path in the end of the day. I just don’t think those choices should be based on false assumption of a concept that is leading you or you are believing in. In other words don’t look at the number 2 as the number 8 and then take a road for your life based on this. Know first that 2 isn’t 8 and if you still want to base your life on the number 2 then fine so long as you aren’t following the number 2 because someone told you it was really 8(hope you get that:))